This is a continuation of a series of articles concerning my preferred methods for reinforcing, various common folk instruments. Today I'd like to discuss the fiddle or violin. I have previously covered the double bass here.
Those of you who are familiar with my blog, know that I have a preference for using mics rather than pick-ups in most folk music situations. If you haven't read this post concerning this subject in general, check it out.
So, the fiddle:
First off, what is the difference between a violin and a fiddle? In general I think those terms describe not the instrument itself, but the style of play. A violin is a classical instrument, while a fiddle is used in traditional music (or the musics that have "evolved" from folk music.)
When someone describes their instrument as a fiddle how does one reinforce it. Hopefully the musician has a nice mic installed on their instrument, such as a DPA system.
If this is not the case a decent small diaphragm condenser can be used quite effectively, if the stage volume is low enough to allow it. The microphone needs to be quite close to the bridge of the instrument, hopefully ending up between the f-holes and the bridge on the low frequency side. For folk music I want the microphone in front of the musician. The player can then "work" the mic, moving in a bit for solos, backing off for rhythm playing. The back of the mic should be pointed toward the monitor as much as possible. As Art Welter points out here, "pointing the back portion of the mic away from the monitors as much as possible will help get a cleaner instrument sound. Many players tend to point the mic down at such a steep angle that they end up picking up a lot of whatever is going through the wedges."
One issue that can arise is with singing fiddle players. A phasing problem can arrise from having a vocal mic near an instrument mic, both mics picking up the same source at the same time. Putting one of the mics out of polarity might help with this issue. Recently I worked with the Claire Lynch Band at the Old Town School of Folk Music. Her fiddle player, Jason Thomas, has come up with a fairly ingenious way to deal with this issue. He clamps a Neumann KM 184 to his mic stand, just below the vocal mic.
One other option for the singing fiddle player is to use a condenser vocal mic for both instrument and vocal.
So what if the fiddler shows up with a pick-up, and insists on using it? Sometimes they are going for that plugged in sound. They are playing through an amp, using effects, etc. This is common with louder music such as modern country, world music, Americana or Alternative rock. My favorite plugged in sound come from Andrew Bird, who I have unfortunately never worked with. He uses multiple effects, looping and plays through some beautiful rotating speakers. See the image I took at Andrews last concert at Millenium Park. In the case that the musician is playing through an amp, mic the amp like an electric guitar and move on.
If they are looking for a realistic sound, and they are plugged into a DI, you might be in for some work. IF they have a nice pick-up, and quality instrument and a decent DI or pre-amp, it shouldn't be that hard to get it to sound real. You might need to roll off some high end and or some high mids. Scott Helmke suggested to me on Facebook that I add this:
"One thing I'd mention about pickups is that oftentimes they need a very high impedance DI to sound good - a Baggs or Fishman DI will have this, or a Countryman 85. A piezo pickup that's not happy with the impedance it's feeding will have weak bottom and weird mids."
When micing a "violin" one needs to keep in mind the fact that they are looking for an EXACT representation of their sound. One of the DPA mics or a comparable system will work, but barring that they will want a high quality condenser mic. In general violin is miced from behind the seated player. They like to have some distance between the microphone and the instrument. Most classical musicians HATE microphones. The don't want to even know that the mic is even there. This image is from a concert I describe here, where I mixed both fiddles AND violins:
discussion at PSW
Update 05.03.10: I recently used a Beyer M160 ribbon mic on a fiddle and found the sound to be exquisite. My only wish was that I had an external preamp as I needed a lot of gain from the desk, which added a little more noise than I wanted. A ribbon mic gives a much smoother sound than a condenser and needs less EQ both in the mains and in the monitors.
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I think you point out some good basics here. One thing I'd like to add refers to the comment about the violinist or fiddler "looking for an exact representation of their sound". This can be somewhat difficult to achieve, for two separate but related reasons. First of all, what the player hears and what really comes out of the violin are often markedly different. Perhaps what's fortunate about this is that when you close mic a violin, the resulting sound can be fairly similar to what the player is used to hearing. But because the violin radiates sound in a very complex manner, what many violinists consider as "their sound" is more of what they hear when they hear other players, from a distance. In other words, what comes out of a violin acoustically and what can be captured by close miking are often very different. That being said, the best way to get a moderately realistic sound and moderate gain before feedback is with a clip on mic just as you describe.
ReplyDeleteHey, Im really enjoying your posts on getting good sound from folk instruments. As an engineer in a small 'rock' venue I dont often come across these instruments but when I do I can struggle & often look to the musician for help finding a good sound spot.
ReplyDeleteIve only just found the blog but will be subscribing!
Thanks, Dan